Wota in Translation

46 comments on “Here are the favorite members of overseas Hello! Project fans!”

1. It’s funny how different the opinions are in 2ch

   “66: 名無し募集中。。。 2017/01/02(月) 11:57:09.12 0.net
   Daa-chan was at one point no. 1, but she’s really only just getting started. This just goes to prove how these foreigners only care about who’s popular at any given time. A while ago they were all going on about the Daaishi Feeling and all that. Daa-chan’s real strength is her performance ability.

   186: 名無し募集中。。。 2017/01/02(月) 12:23:34.67 0.net
   The fact that Murota is so high up in the best performer ranking proves that the foreigners do look at how the members are doing.”

   66: “Yeah foreigners only care about popularity”
   What happened to foreigners only looking at performances skills? Silly 2ch

   Also, 361 pointing out Miki is low and she speaks English. As if every fan spoke English lol

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2. I did a mistake with Reirei’s name in Japanese. orz

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3. I really feel like Japanese fans despise us because they think we “can’t understand this or that girl” we “only care about singing/popularity/etc”, “we don’t understand japanese anyway”… We may not all be japanese-speaking people but some of us can understand or speak it, myself included. They really see us as “second zone fans”… Well. We do have different ways to enjoy Hello!Project but that does not mean that they are above us.

   I really can’t stand that way of thinking.

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   • Don’t call them the Japanese fans. These are just very few of the actual fandom. People that have to say something negative are always the ones stating their opinions.
     This thread was highly entertaining but honestly if the Japanese fans would make translation of what’s being said under this thread and read your comment wouldn’t they maybe also think stuff like “Oh western fans think we’re all hating them and think we are superior to them” because of your single comment and probably some that will follow yours under this thread?
     I mean if you talk to Japanese fans on Twitter and such they are the most helpful and nicest ones. 2nd doesn’t represent the whole fandom. /3

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     • In actual fact, 2ch are the Japanese equivalent of western’s 4chan.
       Remember when Junjun & Linlin just joined Morning Musume? The “fans” who were most vocal in calling for them to “go back to shanghai” were from 2ch.

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     • tbh, whether you’re calling-out the majority or the minority (eg Japanese H!P wota)

       pretty much everyone will feel slighted in some way

       (and then vent online)

       like, i don’t think our cultures differ -that- much on a global scale, in regards to feeling insulted loll

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   • They are saying that eventho foreigners can understand Japanese, foriegn fans do not understand how things are done in Japan, like culturally.

     A good example is Zukki.

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4. “Karin being so poorly liked is exactly the reason I can’t trust foreigners.”
   I agree.

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5. I also don’t understand why Miyamoto Karin is rated so low.
   She is the living embodiment of perfection.
   If foreign fans DID only choose their oshi via skill, she would be a lot higher up the ranks – but foreigners are varied creatures, who all have their own, individual reasons for picking one member over another.

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   • “She is the living embodiment of perfection.”

     And that’s exactly the reason why I think she’s one of the most boring members of H!P. I want something interesting, I never want perfection. Perfection is boring.

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     • Adding to this;

       Perfection is fine. It helps the skill aspect of the group (singing, dancing, etc etc), and that overall ups wtf the group can do and what it inspires the other members to improve.

       But if “perfection” is the only reason why the member should be universally liked, then it’s an insult to idols everywhere. Idols are never to be perfect at anything, even being a ~perfect idol~ (which is impossible without bias) ,,, yeah, it just becomes boring if you don’t really see anything different happen. It becomes repetitive.
       (It’s hard to explain this, but like, the “eternally fresh” aspect is more than just their ages or their youth or their innocence)

       And because of “perfection”, plenty of members will sooner feel they’ve achieved all they can (eg C-ute) even if they can easily go on for years to come. Even if they still love being an idol;

       They reach their peak in skill building, nothing really changes for what feels like forever, and then even they grow bored. Even if they never get deemed “perfect” at anything, they themselves don’t want to spend their entire lives striving to perfect their skills (once you reach your peak, you will either painfully take years to improve it just a smidge, or you will steadily decline regardless)

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6. Karin to me is seems manipulative. Like there’s a lack of a natural charm so she does everything with a robotic “perfection.” Its unsettling and personally rubs me the wrong way.

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7. I find it funny that 2ch members (who don’t particularly represent Japanese fandom) are making broad generalizations about western fans based on a poll in H!O which mostly represents newer H!P fans.

   From the point of view of a western fan, I think that western fans are most influenced by PV’s since they are short, H!P spends a lot of time and money on them, and they are subtitled. So, Maria’s rise is easily explainable since she was a heavily pushed center in one of the PV’s (as opposed to Miki who was a center but had to share it with Maa-chan). Also, Karin may be “underrated” in the west due to the fact that even though she is supposedly the center of Juice=Juice she never dominates the PV’s and shares the stage with four girls who are experts at standing out.

   I never got the backlash against Karin for her dancing in a MM video when Zukki was not able to participate. She showed up, she did her job, she went home. The western fandom act like she bribed the video editors to make her the focus of the PV giving her all those closeups. Maybe Karin’s stalking of Takeuchi Akari will help start her popularity to improve?

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   • I checked the file they shared. There was 12,430 votes (or points), every user could grant 55 points (10,9,8, etc.), so (If I understand right, maybe I’m wrong) this poll was made by 226 persons. So as you see, around 99% of the foreign fanbase voted in the poll.
     Maybe I was the only one who didn’t vote!
     No, but seriously. I totally agree with your comment.

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     • There are way more than 226 foreign fans, it’s not even close to 99%.

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       • That’s called sarcasm.

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   • I don’t think they know this are new fans becoz H!O has been around for a long time.
     I didn’t take part becoz it was not relavant to me >_<

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   • The PV substitution backlash was on how even Daishi didn’t get group member treatment, back when she substituted for Karin who couldn’t dance for J=J’s PV.

     It was like even management wanted Karin in Momusu loll

     (tho really, if your only impression was her anti’s and joksters/ saying stuff like that,, that’s not a very good thing in term of advertising your critical thinking skills tbh)

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     • i think karin have low rank because foreigner is simply not a lolicon… where karin is lolicon ideal type… and as far as i know, majority population in H!O is female therefore karin charm would be nullified… poor karin, wish she have higher rank… baka gaijin… T^T

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8. Maria also did well in Houston, fans liked interacting with her especially. Also the backlash against Karin. A lot of scary Zukki fans xD. But Maachan rules all

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   • I think Maria’s rise was because of Houston TBH. All of my friends walked away loving her (I already loved her) because of how much her interacted with the fandom and how funny she was during skits. She made a HUGE impression there, she just wasn’t afraid at all to interact with anyone.

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9. They really put too much importance of polls on H!O. Even most of the users on H!O don’t vote on those things let alone the rest of the fan community.

   Personally I’ve always liked Karin but she isn’t really quirky the way the more popular members are.

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   • *on polls on H!O

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10. I have watched Karin since she joined eggs and she is just OK to me. These wotas think they know better huh? I also think that foreigner do like cutesy characters if it dine right. Sayumi is a prime example. At one point, she was ranked really high in both international and domestic.

    What I agree is that, most fans dont judge things based on purely abilities but rather impact in the performance. That is why Fukumura and Karin are not vited so high, despite being a good singer, and even with good looking. Maachan, on the other hand, leaves much more impression both on and off stage. Interestingly though, something cannot be trained in performance school.

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11. yeah its funny how a few people can generalize the opinions of entire nations.. I love Burriko characters, Sayu is #2 on my all time ranking and Momo is just as talented… I’ve been following H!P since about 2007, back when some of the KIDS where just debuting and Eggs were still called Eggs lol.. I feel pretty confident in being able to understand the nuances of the Idol world, and even with my limited but growing knowledge of the Japanese language there are still tons of subbers throughout the years like Henkka who make it possible for everyone to follow our idols.

    As for Karin, she’s definitely not hated, she’s a hell of an idol, super talented, if it wasnt for Sayubee she would hands down be the most talented for Juice-Juice… like some others have said above though she can be lacking that excitement factor from time to time, too orthodox… This is me speaking for myself right now but the one thing i did hate was the 4+ years of her fans putting her on the god pedestal, crying and complaining everytime she didnt pass an audition… Tsunku knows what he’s doing so if she didnt pass he obviously felt she wasnt ready, yet some of the extreme fans would constantly bash others that got promoted above her which is just ridiculous to me

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    • Karin is pretty popular still. If they only knew how rabid her fanbase was when she was an Egg… I think her fans have just gotten quieter – they don’t feel the need to yell sbout how great her is when she’s center of her own group. When she was in Eggs, they felt like they had something to prove.

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12. I just don’t like Karin all that much. There is not a single valid reason. I just find her unsympathetic same for Yajima Maimi. I respect her skill level and think she is cute, but I just can’t get warm with her. Putting her in 12kis debut single and feature her that heavy was a dumb and stupid management decision, not her fault. This single didn’t sell well either, Sayu left, and Karin got in one PV 12 close up’s, more than Riho, management handled all other girls poorly, not just Zukki, it’s not like she said “well, let’s make wota wishes come true and be the most overpowered and -pushed member of Morning Musume, gonna steal all the spotlight, f… 12ki”.

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13. Lol about Sato, some years ago THEY didn’t get why we like her “why do they like Sato, I don’t get why they like Sato and Oda so much, ugly blah blah” and now she is popular over there too and suddenly “Well, they don’t get what we say, I guess it’s just because she is a great person, it’s overflowing there too” as if they were the first. Same goes for “oh so ugly” Odasaku who is now popular.

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    • That’s so true!!! people do forget easily

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14. I love these threads. It’s fun to read about their interpretations to our opinions. :)

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15. that’s correct 2ch… noone in the world is able to learn Japanese… it’s impossible! 日本語を勉強の為の本がないよ！日本語を話したいよぉ～・・・ oh wait… what happened? it’s a miracle .___. *sigh*…. so naive…

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    • I’m sorry for this post and for my cynism… It’s just that I put so much effort in learning their language and I get really angry when someone makes comments like this… The western community counts as much as the Japanese and we all love these groups and their members! Even without knowing the language you can appreciate the music and their performances. And not every sub is bad…

      The Amino community I’m part of has at least 30% members who speak a fair amount of Japanese and understand a lot of what is said. And they make the effort to translate it to those who can’t understand it… These commenters on 2ch would understand our struggle, if they were fans of a western group. They would try to learn German, French, Spanish or whatever is needed to get the same experience.

      so once again… sorry for this stupid post… thumb it down as much as you like

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16. “Maa-chan has become the symbol of H!P.”

    I can picture Taylorniw shitting in her pants out of anger reading this thread.

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17. I don’t think they quite realize how much H!P entertainment we consume as foreign fans. They often think we just stick to watching the stuff that comes out on their official Youtube channels but I watch all of their TV appearances, FC DVDs, Concerts, and listen to their radio shows. Foreigners only really miss out on stuff that happens during release events and FC events that don’t come out on DVD (they usually have multiple shows but only film one).

    I went to several Hellocons at the start of January and a Japanese fan completely clad in pink sat down next to me and started talking to me in Japanese out of nowhere about H!P and how Aikawa and Satou should be penalized (which pissed me off since it’s the agency’s fault to begin with) for missing out on concerts and how he thinks Danbara should replace one of them. Talked about 10 minutes before I wanted him to catch on I was a foreigner already because I only understood 60% of his machinegun talk so steered the conversation into ‘What is Juice=Juice going to be doing this year after the big Budoukan thing” knowing they mentioned going abroad. So I said in that case I might have to go home again and he was like ‘Huh…?’ after which I just flat out told him I was Dutch, at which point he was kind of flabbergasted and started talking to the Japanese guy on his right, lol. We foreigners do know our H!P ya know, we’re not out of the loop.

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    • This. I’ve often seen some japanese fans saying things like “oh they don’t know this and that… they haven’t seen that…. they don’t really know what’s happening” like they legit think we only watch the youtube channel and what’s on the dvd’s.

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18. I don’t get why Karin is so unpopular either. Maybe it’s because J=J as a whole is unpopular overseas anyway? the list is very MM-centric.

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19. They have the Western Fandom pretty wrong (and in some places pretty damn right).

    ~They think we all LOVED Zukki over here because of a very vocal minority that showed up in New York , when really she was the “Goddess of H!P” like they think we think she is. She was popular, true, but not the most popular by any means (I think at the time, Sayumi was really the Queen in the Western Fandom, because Sayumi is Sayumi and Sayumi is better than all of us).

    ~ They are DEAD ON though about Westerners being mad at Karin when she took over for Zukki. It wasn’t even something Karin was in control of and I STILL here hate comments about her from that. However, it wasn’t because Zukki was Zukki, they were just bitter that she wasn’t Momusu and getting attention she “didn’t deserve”.

    ~ Westerners don’t look at “Performance” as much as they think we do. Like Japanese fans, what makes one girl popular over another is kind of a mystery. However, Westerners have different standard of what appeals to them, so sometimes our ideals don’t really line up (Sometimes they do, like Maachan). Sayumi is a really good example. Sayumi was always really popular over here, even in her “Ichiban Kawaii” days. We do look at it more, but it isn’t a deciding factor.

    ~The one thing I think the Japanese fandom needs to learn about the Western one is we are WAY MORE predispositioned to like the underdogs.The ones we feel are “Underrated” or who are improving quickly and deserve more attention. In America, this is actively a part of our culture. We have an entire underdog movie genre. This makes it a bit harder for the “aces” to get fans, as we’re going to usually go after the girls we think “deserve” more fans. I think Masaki sort of snuck by that by not being the one pushed of 10th gen at the beginning (That went to Ayumi, who – if you notice – lost fans as her became more and more a front girl than just a dancing center) but she had already endeared herself to the fans by the time she became center no one switched off her. The Fukumura confusion falls in this category as well. Fukumura isn’t as popular as Oda because people feel the need to rally behind Oda because the Japanese fandom doesn’t like her as much

    ~ Nonoka is so low because right now her entire personality is “She speaks English”. When H!P stops trying to use her to pander and actually shows off her personality more, she’ll probably be higher. I say this as someone who really likes Nonoka.

    ~ WE DO see other aspects of a personality. Just because we really don’t care about it doesn’t mean we don’t see it. We have a pretty good feel for the girls, but at the end of the day we, as a culture, gravitate toward different things than the Japanese do, I think it makes the whole fandom better – girls who don’t get much attention in the East have it in the West. It makes the whole fandom – Western and Japanese – well rounded. We see all the stuff, we can even grasp nuance of the stuff we see (Which the Japanese think we can’t for some reason?) we just like different things.

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    • I forgot to put my name XD oh well.

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    • Well said.

      I would like to add, in regards to the underdog culture, we also have a bit of a countering “Diva” culture that brings about opposition or balance to the whole thing. I question if this is a more recent (relatively) cultural development, but I haven’t researched it enough.

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20. I’m a woman, and I really like Karin-chan. Kanatomo is my oshi, but Karin is definitely second. She’s so hardworking! That is really important to me when it comes to idols. I like the ones I can see are really trying and working their ass off (like Sayu). But I can understand why she’s not so popular among us, western fans. She doesn’t have the same “flavor” that girls like Maa-chan have, you know? Also, Juice=Juice is not THAT popular here.

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21. Well, I’m happy Kamiko is also popular over there.

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22. I also don’t get the Western fandom sometimes wotafriends, don’t worry lol. Like those old polls were girls like Maasa were among the members westerners hated… I didn’t get it at all, Maasa was too nice to be hated. Momo, Miya and Risako got in too and while I didn’t agree at all (especially not with the first two) I sort of know why they were hated but with Maasa? Nope, clueless.

    I also don’t see the appeal of a lot super-popular members, I respect opinions but I don’t get some members’ popularity.

    Karin is good and she’s cute but I agree in that she’s not that interesting in her group and in all of H!P, she’s not that remarkable charisma-wise but I like her enough.

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23. I like this kind of thread!! is good to know that they care about what we think of the girls as much as we wonder about what the japanese fans think, about Karin I remember liking her more when she was an egg than now, mainly because I thought it was a crime to not let her debut with that level of talent, but now that she is an idol, I feel like her charisma is lacking, I don’t find her as interesting as the other girls, now the real mystery for me is how come Kobushi Factory members are ranked so low? and it looks like the japanese fans are trying hard to explain the results and for some of then the answer is that we don’t know as much as they do, I would like for someone to explain them the things that Beky said

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    • Kobushi is still relatively new (especially at the time of voting), so it’s normal for H!P fans to not have much of an opinion of them.

      Not to mention there are fans that don’t care about other groups than the ones they actively follow, or they’re simply too new to the fandom to have widened their breadth of knowledge (regarding H!P current and past units). A bit of good example of that is the focus on Momusu in an overall H!P ranking.

      Next year, for certain, Tsubaki will be ranked lowest overall. It’s kind of the norm. Sure they may rank high for some users, but overall, depending on which ranking everyone gave them (if they included them), they’ll only receive so many points.

      .

      (leaving this here, in case you were still wondering how kobushi ranked so low and bother returning to find an answer loll)

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24. now translate these comments to japanese so it will be a hivemind ahaha

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25. “Fukumura pretty much sings as much as Oda ”

    Oh, honey…

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