Hey guys. Let’s talk about the comments here on the site.
As I’m sure you’re aware, the comment policy on here always been pretty relaxed. For the most part, it’s worked out quite nicely over the site’s history. Around a year ago, however, I started noticing what I would describe as a clear dip in quality, so I asked you for your thoughts.
Here’s what I said back then:
Alright. I was hoping to get some feedback from you guys on this.
The commenting policy on here has always been pretty lax. I’ve never once deleted a comment solely because I didn’t agree with it — and there have been hundreds (thousands?) of comments I haven’t agreed with throughout the years. I think for the most part you guys appreciate that about the comments here, too. I like taking the hands-off approach as well.
But, as always, there are of course people who actively and consistently post the stupidest possible shit on here with each comment they make, and I’m beginning to wonder if it’s making the comment section a place no longer worth checking out for some of you.
As I see it, there’s three ways for me to proceed.
1) Continue to do nothing. The upside? Well, anything goes — it’s the spirit of 2ch. The downside? Like I mentioned above, it can make the comment section a bit of a shithole at times… though that’s of course a matter of opinion.
2) Disable comments entirely. Not my favorite alternative of the three, but hey: at least it’s fair.
3) Take the middle road and be more active in deleting comments that add nothing of value. This alternative could make me a bit of a hypocrite; it’s certainly not in the spirit of 2ch — though it is, I suppose, in the spirit of a matome blog. But more importantly, some of you might be worried that it’s a slippery slope. “Once you delete one comment because you don’t like it, what’s to stop you from deleting all of them?” And while I have no intention of ever making the comment section some sort of a safe space for myself where everyone either agrees with me or has their comments deleted, I understand if you have misgivings about this alternative. After all, it would be just one guy making the decision as to which comments go.
You can probably tell I’m personally leaning towards the third option. But really, I’m good with any of them — or anything else for that matter if you have a better idea. I’d just like to hear from you guys and see what the general vibe is.
Back then, most of you seemed to prefer the approach of Option 1. You can go back and read the responses directed to my question above to see why people felt that way. It was all pretty reasonable. The arguments made sense to me and they still do, so I’ve continued as per usual.
In recent months, however, I’ve found that the comment section has gotten way, way shittier. I’ve received messages from some of you telling me just so, too. On a purely personal note, I’ve come to a realization somewhere during these last couple of months: I myself honestly no longer enjoy reading the comments here like I once used to. That’s kind of a shame. I am not a fan of the volume of hateful garbage on the comment section of my site.
Earlier today I received an email from someone. In it, they talked about how they don’t want to lose this spot on the internet to said garbage. “The point is, I come here to enjoy reading the comments of decent guys who like idols.” Their sentiment is, in a nutshell, pretty much what Wota in Translation itself was meant to offer when I started it nearly five years ago — just the translated comments of “decent guys who like idols.” I still feel that that’s what this place is. The only thing is, it feels like the same decency is no longer to be found in the comment section.
With all that said, a year has passed since I last asked. You know how I feel about it, and now I want to hear from you guys. It’s the same question I asked you a year ago. What do you think?
Cheers,
Henkka
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Is it possible to require a sign-in for comments. It seems a bad idea to try to moderate anonymous comments, That exactly the kind of environment those kind of pests thrive on.
If you can’t make it manageable and it doesn’t serve the intended purpose anymore just shut it down. I would prefer you spent your time on the things you are passionate about rather than dealing with internet garbage. There’s always the twitter comments and at least that does require accounts.
Yes, making it a requirement to sign in would be possible. However, I don’t want people to go through the hassle of making an account. More importantly, I do value anonymous comments and people’s wishes to remain anonymous, especially considering the nature of 2ch itself.
I agree with you (and I think most people reading agree with you) that I should spend my time on what I’m passionate about — which is translation. So yes, if it was to happen that the situation ever became unmanageable or too time-consuming, the comments would have to go.
Agreed that would be something you have to decide then what is still manageable.
I understand you’d like to keep the anonymous option open, but still it’s quite easy to make an anonymous email and link that to an account. The purpose of it is exactly to create a little hassle. It’s the low effort garbage that needs a filter. I think I saw TotalBiscuit comment recently that it’s remarkable how creating even a little barrier vastly increases the quality of conversation.
But I personally also don’t have any strong feelings about the spirit of 2chan, so that’s up to you if you also want to consider that.
Hmm. These are definitely good points you’re making. I’ll have to take this into consideration. Thanks.
I’m not very expressive so I don’t comment much, but I do enjoy reading the comments.
A small barrier like this could help and keep you from having to spend time moderating. But you never know if it will make people like on the comments below become more active in trying to ruin the mood for everyone else.
I would hope though that you do leave the comment section open but I can understand how some people can be draining to deal with.
Just get rid of them.
Why waste time to “be more active in deleting comments that add nothing of value” ?
You’ll only waste even more time and effort having to read and moderate comments, more time and effort going through the “hateful garbage”.
A lot of websites are doing the same thing thing. Comment section represent only a minute fragment of the actual visitors of a site, yet it’s something you have to spend a disproportionate amount of energy on.
The thing is, not all of the comments left here are worthless. I’ve received countless of really memorable, thoughtful comments throughout the years. And I love getting them. That’s why I think it’d be a shame to completely disable them.
You may also be overestimating the time investment that would be required of me if I started deleting certain comments. I read through every single comment left on here anyway; the act of deleting one would require but a single extra click on my end.
I’m in favour of option #1. I can get the value of deleting comments that are useless, but it would be a huge time sink for you (and I wouldn’t want something you started out for positive reasons turning into work).
I think removing comments entirely would also remove something important for the site. I don’t like the endless comments about particular member’s weights, but the content of some of the threads from 2ch means that it’s completely unsurprising that some people think its okay to be needlessly vicious.
I’m mainly a fan of the 48 groups, and I do think the quality of that side of the idol fandom has gone down in terms of comments (and forums) in the last few years too.
I agree with this guy. Deleting them would be a huge waste of your time, when I’m sure everyone is perfectly fine either ignoring them or pressing the thumbs down button.
I agree with these two guys.
Is there no way to filter comments that include hateful terms or words?? I don’t really know how things like this work. But kinda like how on club penguin it wouldn’t let you put swears in lol
They can still use stuff like asterics or other ways to write them, so it wouldn’t do much.
This would be next-to-impossible to implement. It’s not that any words by themselves are hateful; it’s the ideas behind them. I have nothing against swear words for example.
I know that sometimes, filter the comments can take time, but really, I think that disable the comment section shouldn’t even be an option. At the moment, I don’t read or comment always, but for me, this is as important as the translations. Heck, this is one of the few places I feel like I can comment safely about H!P, without the fear of someone else bashing me for God knows what reason. I think that the third option is better and, in the worst of cases, just take the first one again.
THIS is why women should not be allowed into any hobby. All they do is bitch and moan. They ruin everything and think liking a youtube video on the official h!p youtube channel every few weeks makes them a “fan”. Take your soyboy white knights with you. Go back to fucking tumblr and write your shit fiction there and be oblivious there.
Western culture deserves to be destroyed
For anyone who wasn’t quite sure what I meant in my post by “hateful garbage” and this comment section turning to shit as of late, the comment I’m replying to is a good example of what I’m talking about. It’s comments like this that I’m hoping to rid the site of.
Gotta be just one or two people who write these and enjoy the infamy of the downvotes. Kindda like the chans.
I enjoy reading the comments. Some are funny and it’s enjoyable to see if there are opinions similar or opposite to mine out there.
I hope the comment section stays and I wouldn’t mind at all if you cleaned it up a little. Seems to me like you’re got a healthy attitude in general regarding comments.
Damn, son, who pissed in your cheerios?
And, we have a winner!
Option 3 is the way to go. :)
As a leader of H!P Amino I totally understand your dilemma. I stopped commenting here, because I didn’t like the toxic responses I got. I don’t like it, when someone insults H!P members for whatever reason. And I don’t tolerate discrimination. As for the comment discriminating women in this section above my comment – I’d have deleted it if it was my blog.
H!P is a great community with 95% nice and friendly fans. Don’t let them suffer because of these 5% trash fans who are trying to mess with your liberal way of thinking! Let them know that they are not welcome here or anywhere else. That’s the only way to stop it unless it’s a very persistent troll… ^^
Delete bad-think please
Sorry you were discouraged enough to stop commenting on here. Hopefully the changes I make (whatever they may be) will help remedy that. Thanks.
I have to thank you! This is an important place for me to get inspired for my own blogs. I’ll always be around to read your translations and eventually comment, when I feel like it.
I enjoyed WiT comments a lot in the past. But I also feel that the quality of the comment section has gone downhill. There have always been comments I not only did not agree with but that went against my basic beliefs. Though there is a difference between having different beliefs as someone else and reading hate speech.
In the past there has been this guy called Baskerville or something in the comments that was really persistent in spreading his retarted and undworldly opinions. I don’t think that his writing skills have ever been elaborate enough to be able to post the most recent anonymous comments that exist solely for the purpose of spreading hate against H!P girls or women in general. But I do believe that all of the recent really bad comments and all of the single downvotes on positive comments are made by the same person while pretending to be more than one individual.
I think this person would be frustrated the most if you would change the settings of this site in a way where you had to approve comments first before being published. No matter wether they are posted anonymously or not. You could change the settings back after a certain time and see wether he’s found a different site to post his idiotic hate speech.
After all this person wants people to read his brain farts if they can’t anymore he will get tired.
to be honest I rarely read the comments and when I do I have noticed recently (last year or more) that there are some very negative trolls out there. A shame and we all know every fandom has their fair share (because humans suck) but it does seem to have increased. quite a bit.
I come to read the translations of the Japanese wota, as those are much more in line with how I see the fandom. SO i have always taken the comment section with a grain of salt anyway..but it’s mroe work for you to sift thru the garbage and weed out what you think are keepers and throw out what’s not..
My criteria would be anything negative that is just for the sake of being negative without any context or constructive criticism.. or name calling, body shaming, bullying (obv) either to each other here, or to the Idols (even tho they’ll never see this) themselves.
If you don’t agree or like something that is fine but there is a way to communicate that that is constructive…not sure anyone knows how to do that any more in our society though.
Another option is to not allow any “Anonymous” posters.
Is there a way to make comments that have a high amount of downvotes get hidden like on Reddit? The only downside would be if people chose to brigade certain comments they disagreed with for no good reason, but if there was a method in place to send hidden comments to you for moderation, it would let you decide whether or not to keep them hidden.
At any rate, I will continue to faithfully downvote all troll comments.
I’m not sure, but I feel like the answer to your question is “no,” not without starting to use a commenting system like Disqus. I’ll have to look into that.
I made a script you can use for this. If you copy it into the footer at the bottom of your blog, it will hide any comments with certain amounts of down votes. It’s not perfect in so far that it will only work when the user has JavaScript enabled and it will only run once the whole site has finished loading (images don’t matter), but that’s probably okay.
You can change the “if” condition to set the threshold for down votes. The first part checks if there are more down than up votes by some margin, which should still allow controversial posts. The second part checks if the total number of down votes is above a certain number.
Hidden posts can be revealed by clicking on the small placeholder created by the script.
If you want to see how it looks, open the web developer console of your browser while on this page and paste it (without the script tags at the top and bottom) in the console. It should hide the bad posts.
https://pastebin.com/Pk8dgyRi
PS: There’s a slight chance it might not work properly when added as part of the page rather than copied into the console. If there are any issues, I’ll be happy to try and fix them if you’d like to actually use the script.
Thank you! I’ll give it a try when I get home.
I think that there are only a couple of people doing almost all of the offensive comments. Too bad you can’t kick-block them as in IRC.
I don’t think that trolling is always wrong, but there is a difference between “Idol A is just BETTER than Idol B” and “Idol B is fat and ugly and should kill herself”. I think trolling that has very little to do with H!P and everything to do with their own twisted worldview should be treated as off topic spam posts are treated now.
I feel like moderation would take up way too much time to bother with especially for a 2ch translation site, so I’m fine with option 1 & 2 but then again I don’t really comment at all. I will say that the comments inevitably turn to shit. To be completely honest, I’m usually all for sitting back, relaxing, and watching the fire burn, but these comments aren’t even entertaining. They’re boring at best and mildly annoying at worst since I keep scrolling past them and they take up half the comments nowadays. It’s always the same “fucking roasties amirite” with a “fucking neckbeards amirite” response.
I understand your dilemma. Leaving them as they are would only lead to people replying to those people, which is exactly what they want. Deleting them would probably lead to them spamming the comment section so you’d have to much to do. But no comments at all would also suck. I guess I could make an account to post my opinions but that’d probably end in much less comments overall. It’s difficult.
I also didn’t expect it to be that bad, but then I read some recent comment sections. One “gem” is that person up there with their “women ruin everything” attitude, another highlight was the “lesbianism isn’t real” person. What happened, is 4chan down?
Personally I’d second the idea someone mentioned a few posts up, the way reddit just hides comments with negative feedback. That way people who are troubled by them aren’t forced to see them, however you wouldn’t have to actively censor them.
If that’s not possible, I’d say delete them. No need to give them another platform.
My humble advice.
Visit your site when you feel it, and take 5 minutes to erase the obvious hateful comments (I noticed them too, they smell the 4ch culture) so that the site is still enjoyable to read. I can’t give you the scale for what is hateful or not, but I think you’re old enough to spare the blatant edgy comment made for the sake of polluting from the “funny” drunken lewd remark.
I like this site since years, so I don’t want you to be tired of it, just take this task as “clean your room once in a while”.
Don’t give up, you’re a precious unknown person to me. :3
Hehe. I knew there was a way to tie this all into Jordan Peterson somehow. Thanks for the kind words.
Appreciate your intention not to make a decision like this just on your own.
I remember last time you asked about this (it was already a year btw?wow, time flies) it was a very good discussion and you’ve made the right decision.
To be honest, I didn’t really notice any changes in the comment section since then, don’t know why.
Anyways, my opinion is that you should’ve given us some examples of shitposting that really annoys you or the others.
That’s because if you decide to be more active in moderation of comments, the site can loose a bit of the purpose, but then again, I also understand where you’re coming from.
I definitely see some sense in deleting the comment you mentioned above, but I wouldn’t like it if you for example delete “Maria is annoying crybaby and she doesn’t contribute shit to the MM” or some more sexual comments that can be seen sometimes (usually because of the nature of the thread itself).
I don’t think you would actually delete comments like those tho, I’m just making a point that moderating can become a grey area.
Just my two cents on this.
You’re doing a great job on this and reading your new threads is one of the best H!P fandom experiences a non-japanese speaking person like me can enjoy :)
Yes, you’re right: I wouldn’t delete a comment like that and I never have. And If I do go with Option 3, I don’t intend to start then either. That kind of stuff is not what this is about. I just feel like I needed to spell this out.
Just make comments that have a lot of down votes hidden, so if people want to read it then they will have to click show. That way people will not see the stupid comment on first glance, and if they want to see what the comment says, then they will have to take the extra step to be able to read it.
By doing this it would satisfy the “not delete any comment” and kinda satisfies the “delete any comment that have no value”
But then there are comments which are true but the up- and downvotes are split because some people are butthurt that their oshi isn’t perfect and has flaws as well or that a girl isn’t at fault when the management sucks.
But comments which are sexual about minors are often upvoted and have just a few downvotes, don’t you think those should be hidden too?
Internet users, as a collective, should not respond to hate and trolling, period. Just downvote (to show others who just read the BS that what they just read is BS and they should not bother to respond) and go on with your day.
Henkka, if you are bothered by the trolls and believe that they make your site look bad, then moderate it yourself, like option 3 suggests, but when I see bad posts getting many downvotes and good posts getting upvotes, it kinda gives me an idea of what the site and its users’ values are all about. Censorship is rarely the right response.
That being said, if monitoring comments makes you reconsider your work on this site, then by all means, get rid of them. Your humor and your translations are the reasons we come to this site.
I don’t know how technically feasible this is but some websites I visit have a toggle button where comments stay hidden, until the person reading the post or article wishes to see them.
My first choice would probably be to hide comments with a lot of down votes. I would also recommend hiding all of the replies to comments that have been hidden by down votes. These are generally just angry replies by people that have been lewered in by the troll and only serve to encourage the troll.
If this is all too much trouble, don’t worry. I would be perfectly happy with the comments totally unmoderated. I’m completely capable of ignoring the trolls and enjoying the other comments.
Henkka, I also wanted to say thanks once again for all the effort you put into this site, and I hope that the one or two idiots that think it’s fun to make people mad, don’t ruin YOUR enjoyment of the site. The rest of us really appreciate what you do.
And to the rest of the posters on this site, I strongly recommend you don’t reply to the trolls. The angry replies are all he is after. A down vote is sufficient.
Fuck everyone. Option 2 :P
you already did a lot.
selecting comments then translating them.
you got your own life.
don’t worry too much about us.
thanks for your work, Henkka
Option 2. Moderating comments will take a long time, more time than it’s worth. It’s easier to get rid of them completely. If people want to talk or discuss, you can link them to another avenue. Don’t waste your time and effort on this because you will only grow to view it as a chore. News sites have left comments off their main site and leave commenting to FB or Twitter where they’re linked.
Toxicity has been a big problem in idol fandom for a long time. Personally, I only talk about it with my friends because I know they won’t spew bile and will respect my opinions if we want to have a more serious discussion. Interacting with the greater fandom has a lot of pros and cons but my spare time is limited and I don’t have time for that shit anymore.
If we reinterpret the poll as ‘doing nothing’ versus ‘doing something’, clearly readers want something to be done about the comments.
My take: just get rid of them. Don’t force yourself to combine something you love with something you hate.
I agree that the quality went down, but I still voted for option 1. I can’t help myself. Looking at the results, it seems that “delete some stuff” will win anyway, so it’s not like it made a difference.
Still, having a pretty much uncensored comment section was pretty cool for the time it lasted. Thanks for going with it up till now. Too bad there’s always some foul apples. That’s why we can’t have nice things.
People who troll comments sections like the attention that they get, and having you get rid of comments altogether or take time to mod them would be the ultimate compliment in their mind because someone took the time to change something because of them. I’m in favor of you doing nothing. Instead, feel flattered that the hard work draws such a strong emotional reaction from someone. Hateful comments are left by people who love you and what you do. :D It’s all about perspective. I’ll support you in whatever you decide, though.
First of all, let me again say “Thank you” for your translations.
Yeah set some rules for Wota to comment by. It is a shame some folks always have to ruin a good thing for the rest of us. I am certain I have made comments you would not agree with, but everyone has a right to their opinion, right? Thanks for being a good sport!
I, too, have noticed some being offensive, and degrading, in their comments about idols. That is not right. These young ladies deserve better than that. Respect the girls! Those commenters should be warned to clean up their act~~~ or be banned!
I am not going to tell names now, but some repeated offenders here are well-known. What about a 3 warnings policy? After that, they are OUT.
In theory, option 1 would be fantastic, but trolls and bullies don’t get away by themselves, and ignoring them make them sometimes even more vicious. If they constantly cross the line – and more often than not, we know clearly when the line is crossed – they should be banned. But, to be honest, there are not that many of them. After a few cracks of the whip, they will either behave or disappear.
Google and Facebook are slowly learning that freedom of speech has to be moderated against abusers. I am afraid this is something you can’t escape either.
kys
kys? Kawaiis?
kawaii yuri syndicate?
I’m all for filtering, especially if it is as useless as the “western culture” comment earlier…
But no matter what you choose to do, i am always going to love this blog and enjoy reading through the comments.
I don’t know if this is a possible feature to add, but as far as wordpress go, you can add a plugin with a report button and after certain amount of reports (more than 5 or something) then it would be held for moderation and you could check if it is indeed meant to be deleted or just people spamming the report button for no reason. So it wouldn’t just depend just on you nor the users, but a mix of many different views on what a nasty comment really is.
Interesting. Do you remember the name of the plugin?
Back in the day of 90s interwebs, i really only move or delete spam on my message board. everything else is fine. i don’t really believe in censorship. that’s for the big name websites with big dollar advertisers and sponsors.
What about using Disqus in the comment section? We can flag inappropriate comments, and I think that as the admin you get other options to filter the comments, I’m not sure though, but I like comment sections with Disqus