1：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 02:57:15.00 ID:0
From today’s J-MELO:
“Tsunku♂’s music has so many different sounds that it feels like you’re in an amusement park, but his melodies are always solid.”
4：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 03:00:58.03 ID:0
I hate the both of them but I suppose he’s not too far off.
11：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 03:09:05.23 ID:0
When he says Tsunku’s melodies are “solid“, just what songs is he talking about? I can’t recall any singles like that. If there’s someone who knows H!P’s catalog well, please do tell.
Nakata Yasutaka’s melodies are always solid though. I’ll just leave you with this song that you should know from Hello! Project TIME.
13：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 03:15:32.16 ID:0
Almost all of his songs. Most of the leading songwriters use a lot of major seventh chords and rely on the atmosphere of the songs to carry them whereas Tsunku uses lots of scales and, even if it’s a bit awkward at times, blue notes.
294：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 19:23:56.66 ID:0
For someone like me who doesn’t know much about music, I just can’t believe the idea that Tsunku’s melodies are all “solid“. Even if it’s a song that’s excellent music theory wise, if the normal, average consumer doesn’t think it’s any good, it’s nothing more than inferior goods.
16：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 03:19:08.51 ID:0
20：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 03:26:35.19 ID:0
Listened to it. The transition from the catchy and refreshing intro to the first verse is nice, and I like how simple the second verse and chorus are, but why does it all collapse at the “100man Ten ♪” part? Do fans of H!P songs appreciate that sort of ugly way of ending parts while calling it “eccentric“?
23：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 03:32:24.29 ID:0
35：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:11:34.98 ID:0
First song. The part before the chorus is lacking, but for the most part it’s pretty listenable.
Second song. Though it kind of feels like a good melody is coming, there are too many twists and turns and it just falls apart. Why? I’m sure this could’ve been a nice, straightforward song but it’s like Tsunku’s going “I won’t let you have it.“
153：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:44:16.09 ID:0
>>11 is a Perfume wota who hates H!P, so no matter what he just wants to say that Yasutaka is above Tsunku.
14：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 03:17:42.43 ID:0
When you say “leading songwriters who use major seventh chords”, who do you mean exactly?
15：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 03:18:49.21 ID:0
Everyone who makes New Music.
26：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 03:40:56.98 ID:0
J-pop doesn’t have anything but melodies that are solid.
27：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 03:42:21.75 ID:0
Ayaya’s first album is pretty much full of proper melodies.
28：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 03:44:23.61 ID:0
VERY BEAUTY is nice.
29：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 03:54:29.15 ID:0
32：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:02:13.36 ID:0
46：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:26:47.17 ID:0
This is good. I like the key changes in the melody and the natural progression that doesn’t destroy the sorrowful mood.
33：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:07:35.45 ID:0
Um, does popular J-pop without solid melody lines even exist? To me it seems like that’s all there is for the average Japanese listener. That’s all they pay attention to.
98：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:43:27.27 ID:0
True, Japanese people are more about melody than rhythm — and the melodies we do like are mostly trite.
34：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:11:12.67 ID:0
Reread >>1 properly. What he’s saying is that although their music has lots of timbre, they don’t neglect making good melodies either.
38：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:19:21.16 ID:0
Well, in Maeyamada’s case he crams his music so full of sounds, it feels like he’s neglecting melodies.
41：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:23:38.19 ID:0
Better yet, it’s like he’s trying to make up for weak melodies with arrangements.
44：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:25:21.74 ID:0
If you’re talking about the songs “collapsing” and stuff, there’s no reason for you to listen to cute idol music, is there?
45：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:25:48.05 ID:0
51：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:33:45.19 ID:0
So even Tsunku’s capable of writing a song with a melody that doesn’t try to pull any tricks.
Why does he never put those out as singles?
48：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:28:52.28 ID:0
Nah, certainly Tsunku’s still laying the foundations for J-pop and is one of the leading edge songwriters, but Yasutaka’s already gotten old.
50：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:30:41.97 ID:0
58：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:42:05.79 ID:0
The first half of the chorus is good, but it’s the “shouganai yume oibito ?” part that I wish he would’ve done somehow differently.
56：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:37:26.62 ID:0
63：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:49:46.50 ID:0
The cool sound does help it some, but I’m not feeling any of the other melodies besides the chorus… And that break before the chorus just makes me think he ought to try harder.
57：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:40:16.02 ID:0
66：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:53:32.87 ID:0
This is just an all-around good melody.
61：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:46:33.75 ID:0
Well, Terada’s roots are in kayou kyoku music.
62：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:48:09.94 ID:0
74：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:03:11.30 ID:0
Cut out the unnecessary decorations and rap parts and arrange it like Nonaka “Masa” Yuuichi’s Zannen Shoujo and it might be a bit more listenable. The parts individually have good phrases but the transitions are just awful. It kills the melody.
65：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:52:13.55 ID:0
I’d forgotten about this one.
76：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:09:00.35 ID:0
There are good melodies here and there, but I can’t shake the feeling of it all sounding so patched up. I can’t get into it.
69：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 04:56:35.26 ID:0
80：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:15:15.48 ID:0
All in all, I think it’s good, but Tsunku really does have trouble with making his prechoruses. If David Guetta were to arrange this song while cutting all the irrelevant melodies, this could probably turn into a really refreshing song that I’d enjoy.
75：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:04:49.09 ID:0
There are people who think Nanchatte Renai doesn’t need those rap parts, and then those who think they enhance it.
77：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:10:31.30 ID:0
85：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:23:23.41 ID:0
For once a song with a decent prechorus and a nice transition to the chorus.
The problem however are the verses.
78：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:10:53.12 ID:0
How about some H!P enka?
87：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:27:40.42 ID:0
I thought the intro came straight out of Hamasaki Ayumi’s SURREAL. The melody builds up nice and simply, leaving a good impression. I’d call this a solid melody.
79：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:14:54.33 ID:0
89：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:32:46.58 ID:0
There’s such a lack of the Tsunku components, it almost makes me think “who’s cover is this?”
I like it.
90：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:32:49.59 ID:0
To those of you who feel like Tsunku’s songs sound patched up, what do you guys then think about stuff like Bowie, B’z or Komuro? If anything it’s those guys who can’t make a bridge and just suddenly dive into the chorus while making abrupt key changes. Tsunku — if sometimes a little forced — always does a pretty good job of putting in transition chords so it’s a pleasant listen.
101：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:46:46.40 ID:0
That’s why Komuro and B’z are in decline. The same would’ve happened to Bowie had he continued on like that for five more years, but he improved with his later singles where the transitions don’t feel so forced anymore. Plus his transition melodies are nice and catchy, too.
Tsunku doesn’t have any catchiness in his transitions.
106：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:50:46.06 ID:0
Gimme a break. Just where are the smooth transitions in Marionette? The transition from the first verse to the second is abrupt and the transition to the chorus even more so. That song completely disregards the typical style of transitions. If this is the best you have, even Tsunku’s probably most patchy-sounding song “Souda! We’re ALIVE” would be better than this.
127：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:15:29.24 ID:0
The progression of We’re ALIVE feels forced, but at least there’s a proper bridge. That “GO GO GO GO” actually makes a big difference.
108：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:53:14.02 ID:0
Okai sang Only You a while back. What a shitty song. There’s no hook whatsoever.
93：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:39:51.83 ID:0
You sure have lots to complain about, but basically your point is that you hate Tsunku, right? There’s no need to listen to H!P in that case.
168：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:58:28.71 ID:0
Duh. If I hated him, I wouldn’t listen to him and I wouldn’t praise him. I’m saying that he has individual parts with good melodies, but it’s his transitions that he can’t do properly. The fact that you just snap at the other party and can’t look at what they’re saying objectively makes you just another H!P wota idiot.
174：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 07:01:43.52 ID:0
Doesn’t the fact that you think he can’t make his transitions properly just mean that you don’t like his hooks? If you like his hooks, the hooks themselves become like transitions and it just sounds awesome.
177：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 07:04:11.62 ID:0
Don’t be fooled. Idiotic utterances like >>168 couldn’t possibly be said by anyone who likes Tsunku.
100：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:46:13.93 ID:0
129：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:18:23.47 ID:0
I get now what Marty was saying about being influenced by Tsunku back in the days. His genius is withering away.
131：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:20:28.62 ID:0
Are you saying that after listening to all of Tsunku’s songs from last year?
On the contrary, more than before it’s right now that his music has the most breadth. He’s amazing.
104：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:49:59.17 ID:0
The arguments of the guy who was critiquing the songs just now are laughably flimsy.
109：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 05:53:32.04 ID:0
No matter how many nameless critics there are here, they’re nothing compared to the number of comments full of high praise on YouTube. Marty is right.
116：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:00:11.82 ID:0
When speaking of “ONLY YOU”, the first song that comes to mind is the Morning Musume one.
Now that was a seriously awesome song.
122：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:07:51.89 ID:0
The melody maker Yasutaka isn’t above Tsunku?
125：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:10:05.17 ID:0
The amount of music they make is completely different. Besides, his early melodies were all the same taste.
128：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:17:33.75 ID:0
Honestly, Nakata Yasutaka’s just writing the same songs to Perfume and Kyary Pamyu Pamyu.
It’s all the same type of techno. He’s just a one-trick pony.
134：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:25:58.32 ID:0
Tsunku sure has a large group of defenders, huh?
135：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:26:32.39 ID:0
Even if Tsunku’s music has lots of variety, it’s all just throwaway material…
Being able to write good songs is the bigger plus for me, even if they are a one-trick pony.
Would you call someone who does rock or hip hop a one-trick pony, too?
139：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:32:40.81 ID:0
Having a large repertoire is important if you want to call yourself a composer. The band or singer can change it up with aesthetics and whatnot, but isn’t it pretty bad if the composer can only make songs that all sound alike?
151：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:42:16.65 ID:0
Nakata is a DJ.
His job is done as long as it makes the people on the floor dance.
154：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:45:33.16 ID:0
If you want to make this about songs that you can dance to, Nakata’s no match to Tsunku.
All those “odotte mita” videos by fans worldwide prove that.
141：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:34:49.95 ID:0
To those that say they like Nakata Yasutaka, are you sure you haven’t just been brainwashed my music magazines? I get it if you like Perfume, but Nakata Yasutaka himself? Impossible to understand.
143：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:36:06.89 ID:0
I don’t think Kyary and Perfume are similar. Perfume has a lot of modern techno in it whereas Kyary seems to me more like a modern interpretation of 80’s pop. Even if you look at Yasutaka’s earlier works, I think Kyary is pretty unique.
149：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:41:02.46 ID:0
Yeah, but it all falls within the genre of “techno pop“. Tsunku can do anything from funk to rock to disco to enka to ska to tango to Okinawan music to flamenco to Arabic scales to country to gospel to Russian folk to… Being able to have that large of a repertoire and yet making all of it have your signature sound is something I’ve never seen any another composer be able to do.
144：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:37:09.93 ID:0
If you just look at the A-sides and singles, it might seem like Tsunku just writes songs that are similar to each other. It’s when you start listening to the B-sides and album songs that you realize that that’s not the case.
146：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:37:32.81 ID:0
It’s these songs with simple melodies that you don’t get tired of as easily.
148：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:40:58.37 ID:0
Come on, “edge” isn’t anything that special.
157：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:49:04.11 ID:0
A song’s easier to listen to over and over again when there’s no iffy “catch”.
163：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:53:53.95 ID:0
So in short, you’re type who thinks that hooks are just a hindrance. You feel that as long as it’s something you can pleasantly leave playing in the background, it’s good. The typical, most usual way of listening to music.
159：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:51:45.26 ID:0
Yasutaka doesn’t have groove and the same could be said for Maeyamada as well.
But I suppose that’s the destiny of home studio composers.
171：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:59:39.47 ID:0
Well, rather than groove it’s the steady, 80’s style rhythms that are popular right now.
People don’t care much about groove right now.
But I guess it’ll swing back again at some point.
169：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 06:58:48.14 ID:0
Nakata’s started to wither, too.
175：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 07:01:46.31 ID:P
Nakata seems to be having trouble with the quick release pace for Kyary. Perfume only puts out releases every half a year or so, so I guess that’s why he’s able to somehow manage. capsule’s not releasing anything new either. So how come Tsunku is able to write new songs at such a fast pace?
184：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 07:08:48.19 ID:0
Apparently he has a knack for setting himself deadlines and keeping them. He’ll decide “today I’m definitely writing two songs” and he’ll do just that even if he feels they’re not perfect. Then afterwards he can tweak them around and choose what direction he takes them when he’s arranging them and making them into demos. He’s certainly a genius, and one who’s found the key to being able to mass produce songs.
176：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 07:03:22.44 ID:0
Tsunku leaves most of the arranging to someone else, no?
Even so, he’s pretty amazing.
249：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 10:31:43.07 ID:0
Looking at some interviews with H!P arrangers, Tsunku♂ apparently keeps an active back-and-forth discussion with them, advising them on the direction of the arrangement and techniques to use and so on. Apparently the arrangement is pretty much a collaboration as well.
188：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 07:15:37.61 ID:0
I like Tsunku’s simple songs like “Never Forget”.
I think Tsunku’s songs like “Only you” with its nice chorus that’s ruined with weird time signature changes are a waste.
I hate Tsunku’s weird songs like “The Manpower!!!”.
I just appreciate some songs and criticize others.
But I’m sure some of you assholes will just take that as me saying I hate Tsunku.
196：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 07:24:38.70 ID:0
I pretty much get your taste. The fact that the only thing you can grasp from “Only you” are the weird changes in time signature means you probably don’t appreciate prog rock either and artists like Carole King probably rises to the top of your preferred Western music, so music-wise you’re fairly conservative. Thinking that hooks are a distraction or comical at best is a pretty common feature in Japanese listeners, so I think your taste is exceedingly normal. To someone like you who loves normal J-pop, is there really any reason to force yourself to listen to H!P?
202：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 07:35:02.03 ID:0
I love “Close to the Edge” by Yes. Though it might seem avant-garde at first glance, all the melodies are beautiful and they’re executed well. The time signature changes, too, feel natural and sound good.
I admit to being conservative. The major label stuff just sounds better to me.
206：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 07:40:55.00 ID:0
Also, though I wrote in >>188 about “Only you”‘s chorus apparently being good, for me I think it’s a fairly mediocre chorus for Tsunku. But because of the hard-hitting triplets and heavy guitars before it, when it finally gets to the chorus it feels pleasant, like your field of vision’s just opened.
200：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 07:30:26.80 ID:0
I thought it was fun how the Sugaya parts in “BE Genki” go three half tones lower into a minor key. That’s straight out of classical music.
Also, in “Yuke! Genki-kun” the progression of F→Am→Dm that’s then followed by a F#m.
I liked the sort of distant choice for that last chord.
I think the former was deliberate while the latter was done based more on feeling though.
212：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 07:50:50.69 ID:0
That feeling of being in an amusement park was pretty strong in Pink Lady’s music, too. I wonder if Tsunku’s taking inspiration from that. It feels like Pink Lady’s Tokura Shunichi tried to fit in every possible genre in the world to their music.
214：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 07:57:42.52 ID:0
Definitely. Just that Tsunku’s been at it for longer and thus he’s possibly covered even more ground. Besides, it feels like he already cleared the Perfume style with “Suki da na Kimi ga” and “Lalala no Pipipi”.
228：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 08:50:01.62 ID:0
Ah, I know what you mean.
I think he was inspired not just by Tokura-sensei but the other judges on Star Tanjou! as well.
216：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 08:01:19.45 ID:0
Man, Rainbow Pink was released before Perfume even made it big.
244：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 09:38:45.02 ID:0
Aishuu Romantic and Watashi no Dekkai Hana are awesome songs.
248：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 10:01:03.68 ID:0
Music is good if it sounds good to you.
The fact that there’s an occupation called “music critic” seems so silly to me.
236：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 09:00:26.32 ID:O
The reason Marty got into idols in the first place was because of the Tsunku-produced era of Matsuura Aya, you know.
270：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 14:05:11.84 ID:0
I do recognize his talent as a guitarist.
271：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 14:05:51.60 ID:0
Let’s get him to join LoVendoЯ.
274：名無し募集中。。。：2013/03/10(日) 14:18:18.61 ID:0
I quite like Marty Friedman.
Henkka: This… I could translate threads like these all day long. Although apologies in advance if some of the translations for the comments that delve more deeply into music theory are a bit off or don’t make much sense — it’s an area I know absolutely nothing about.
Source: http://oha2.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-727.html (jp)