1: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 18:54:39.61 0.net
Ten years ago it was all guys. Back then all you heard concerning women + H!P was like that episode of the waitress at a restaurant publicly posting on her mixi about how disgusting she thought all the wota customers at work were.
2: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 18:56:16.77 0.net
I think it was definitely in large part thanks to them uploading so much material on YouTube. Young girls nowadays don’t watch any TV, they just sit in their rooms watching YouTube on their smartphones.
5: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 19:00:43.87 0.net
I remember laughing about how they called us all “kibonnu.”
3: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 18:58:36.34 0.net
Ten years ago I attended a handshake event for v-u-den’s Ajisai, and only about 20 of the 1200 people there were girls.
22: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 19:05:51.08 0.net
There’s no one left to deny that there really are more female wota nowadays, right? I mean, can we all agree on this point now?
23: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 19:06:13.22 0.net
>>22
There most definitely are more female wota now.
4: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 18:59:57.62 0.net
It was thanks to Platinum Era.
7: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 19:01:06.08 0.net
Because of the office’s honest, hard work.
8: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 19:01:11.67 0.net
Because those girls lost interest in AKB.
9: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 19:02:24.59 0.net
Because of the recent Cool Hello/pseudo-lesbian thing they have going on. It’s obvious that the office now mainly focuses on attracting more female fans, and little by little it looks like their plan is working. I think eventually they hope to become something like a new Takarazuka.
59: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 19:37:48.22 0.net
And do you have some kind of a source as to the number of female fans having actually increased?
61: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 19:39:47.06 0.net
>>59
How about actually attending an event or a concert and seeing for yourself?
36: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 19:16:05.94 0.net
At concerts it’s only about 30% women, but when you go to live viewings it’s more like 60%.
37: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 19:16:50.75 0.net
I guess the costume coordination corner is effective.
43: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 19:22:30.98 0.net
I’ve been going to their concerts since 2004. Back then there simply were no women.
44: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 19:22:41.53 0.net
I swear, Michishige’s graduation live viewing was pretty much all girls.
74: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 19:46:54.90 O.net
There started to be more female wota in around 2010 — I’m guessing that was in large part thanks to AKB. But what I don’t get is how, in recent years, when you go to an event you’ll see that pretty much literally half of all wota are females. Why is this?
102: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 20:02:09.75 0.net
It was so weird being at Michishige’s graduation tour last year. I only went to Osaka, but there were so many girls there it was silly. At least 25% were women, and not only that, but most of them were young and pretty, too. I think there might have been more women there than at Perfume’s tour.
111: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 20:08:08.47 0.net
I got into H!P when I was starting to get tired of Perfume. This was around 2011.
104: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 20:02:53.74 0.net
Meet the H!P wota of today:
121: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 20:17:00.91 0.net
http://rocketnews24.com/2014/11/12/508775/
http://rocketnews24.com/2014/10/02/493364/
http://rocketnews24.com/2014/09/16/486681/
138: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 20:36:45.48 0.net
I spoke to the young girl sitting next to me at a °C concert before it started. By the time we started hitting it off talking about the Kenshuusei, I was pretty much ready to propose to her.
168: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 21:02:05.49 0.net
When I went to the Berryz Budokan live viewing, sitting to the right of me were these two really cute gyaru type girls, and to the left of me was this insanely cool old guy who looked like Kitaouji Kinya. I just thought to myself, “man, H!P’s fan base has a really wide age range.“
3. 名無しプロジェクト 2015年04月27日 23:08 ID:9te44PQW0
At a 2014 Budokan concert, honestly 70% or 80% of the people around me were all girls, and they were all university age or girls who’d just began their OL careers. Anyway, if you wanted to know the why, it’d be faster to just ask the girls directly.
7. 名無しプロジェクト 2015年04月27日 23:48 ID:HuOwhvUk0
Serious reply: I think it’s basically people who’ve gotten bored of AKB or Momoclo and they’ve moved on to H!P as a result. That’s how it happened to most of the female wota around me anyway. It just makes me feel like they’re going to get bored of H!P, too, before long.
8. 名無しプロジェクト 2015年04月28日 00:13 ID:8FSTDiWX0
I, too, got bored of Perfume and got hooked on H!P through Berryz. It’s not that I hate Perfume now or anything, but hearing girls like Risako, Karin-chan or Miyabi-chan, I just thought “wow, these girls can really sing.” Their talks are funny too, thanks in large part to Momochi, and thanks to their long history they have so many awesome songs, too. And above all, the concerts are just so much fun.
9. 名無しプロジェクト 2015年04月28日 00:13 ID:cj8Lu.EC0
I don’t think there are that many “pairing” wota. The only fans who view them like that must come from an anime otaku background or something. I personally got to know the current Musume through Dream Morning Musume, and I was just surprised to see how much Takahashi Ai-chan had grown (because I still had an image of her being the way she was when she’d just joined.) I got hooked on them instantly. They’re such good singers, they’re so cute, their dancing is amazing… I just thought H!P is amazing. Then I got hooked on Berryz and °C-ute and noticed how cute everyone in Kenshuusei was, too.
I now totally get the feelings of the wota who feel like they want to watch over the members in a parental way. The top members of H!P have real talent, so there’s a lot there for girls to admire, too.
10. 名無しプロジェクト 2015年04月28日 00:18 ID:nW2L0v620
The Morning Musume boom happened when I was in elementary school. They were at the top of the charts and on TV constantly so you’d hear their songs almost as if by accident, and then during the 5th gen auditions I remember thinking how cute Takahashi Ai-chan was. But then their fame just fizzled away.
Much later I happened to see the news about Takahashi Ai-chan’s graduation and I wondered what Morning Musume was up to these days, so I looked them up on YouTube and got hooked. I felt like I wanted to hear Ai-chan singing live at least once before her graduation, so I joined the fan club, bought some concerts tickets, got even more hooked on their songs, and then attended my first concert.
12. 名無しプロジェクト 2015年04月28日 00:40 ID:mKGWXzdy0
The “pseudo-lesbian thing“? Excuse me? (laughs) So even guys are aware of that sort of thing. But honestly, that’s something that’s been around for ages (the part of the fandom who love the member couplings). I don’t think that’s the main reason H!P attracted so many new female fans.
Personally I have some dance experience as well, and I got hooked after seeing Rihoriho’s super energetic dancing in One Two Three. The fact that they now have so much support from fellow girls really proves their ability in my opinion. I think many girls also like Johnny’s because they have some of the same appeal as H!P: they both have members who are pushed to the background because they’re unable to show their true ability, they both have that sense of the members being rivals as well as good friends, and because they’re all dedicating their youth to improving their singing and dancing skills.
I don’t think “Cool Hello” is necessary — as long as H!P has the above things, the female fans will keep on coming. ^^ I know from experience that female wota do buy the goods with cute outfits as well (like photos and stuff). °C’s Sekai Ichi, for example, was very popular with women, too.
Sooner or later the “Era of Warring Idols” will end, and I think the only groups who will remain after that will be the ones with true ability.
13. 名無しプロジェクト 2015年04月28日 01:56 ID:e9zTrquW0
I was watching AKB one day and I just thought to myself “I wonder what H!P are doing nowadays?” So I checked out some videos and was instantly hooked. This was back in 2010. Oh, and yeah, I’m a female wota. I like how it feels like they didn’t get to where they are now because of some sales tactics or whatever, but because of hard work. (laughs) (Although there are times I wish the office would work a bit harder yet. (laughs))
15. 名無しプロジェクト 2015年04月28日 02:17 ID:LU0cv5tI0
I used to be super into H!P between around 2001 and 2005. I got bored of them around the time I started university, and when I got back to them after graduate school in 2011, I once again became a wota thanks to YouTube. The office seriously owes a lot to YouTube.
20. 名無しプロジェクト 2015年04月28日 06:27 ID:THZ.EdK20
I kind of feel a little bit lonely that it’s no longer this meeting place solely for us chosen ones; the perverted gentlemen. At the same time, I bet the members themselves are happy about having more female wota.
22. 名無しプロジェクト 2015年04月28日 08:27 ID:1UPkJsVd0
I was watching Shugo Chara when I saw Buono! during the commercial break and thought they looked somehow familiar, so I looked them up and realized they were the same elementary schoolers I saw back when Musume was still popular. I further researched them on YouTube and got hooked on Berikyuu. ( ＾ω＾ ) I think it was around two years later that I actually started going to their concerts.
23. 名無しプロジェクト 2015年04月28日 08:47 ID:tb7C9Ij60
It really feels like the seeds they earnestly planted during Platinum Era finally bloomed during Colorful Era. I, too, first got hooked on them after seeing the dance to Naichau Kamo and the live video of SONGS on YouTube. I think there might be quite a lot of girls who became fans because they looked up to Ai-chan and Sayu.
31. 名無しプロジェクト 2015年04月28日 16:00 ID:MoU4FdyM0
I think we’ll see a decrease in the number of female fans in a year or two.
33. 名無しプロジェクト 2015年04月28日 18:52 ID:KdhKEyjZ0
Speaking as a female wota, I just want to say that Cool Hello had nothing to do with me becoming a fan! On the contrary, I wish they’d go back to their old style of wota T’s, and that they’d bring back °C’s old logo. Also, guys might not understand this, but Tsunku♂-san’s songs are a very important part of it. I can sympathize so much with lyrics featuring powerful females.
34. 春風 2015年04月28日 20:44 ID:oWgtU9wnO
I love Tsunku♂-san’s lyrics! (^-^) And I love Momochi!
35. 名無しプロジェクト 2015年04月28日 20:46 ID:oWgtU9wnO
I just think it’s amazing that they can dance like that and not lip-sync.
37. 名無しプロジェクト 2015年04月28日 21:12 ID:mv3BX5oj0
I was originally into them during Golden Era, but I lost interest in 2004. Then just two or three years ago I was suddenly wondering whatever happened to Berryz Koubou, so I looked them up and started getting more and more drawn to them, and that’s how I got back into H!P. It might be mainly because I liked Miyabi-chan and Risako’s sense of fashion. Plus, they’re cute.
39. 名無しプロジェクト 2015年04月28日 23:20 ID:6wLJJ8AJ0
① The generation of fans who liked Minimoni, Koharu and Berikyuu as kids have grown up and are now able to support themselves financially.
② Thanks in part to AKB, people now have less hangups about actually attending events or concerts.
③ Smartphones and such have become much more popular.
Especially with H!P and groups like Berikyuu where you can go back and find records of what they’ve been doing starting from the very day they joined Hello! Project up until the present day, ③ is what lets people easily find out about all that greatness.
Now, as for popularity-increasing ideas the office itself comes up with…? Well… (^o^;)
44. 名無しプロジェクト 2015年04月30日 22:40 ID:TjxDW.WO0
It started with me just saving Sayu’s selfies that I found on the net. Then I started listening to the songs, beginning with Wagamama Ki no Mama Ai no Joke. I learned that the members were updating their blogs every day, I found an easy-to-read matome site to follow, and I started watching Hello! Station to stay up-to-date. I got hooked on Sayu’s live videos and the perverted talks on her radio show. I felt like I had to see her live at least once before her graduation, and that’s how I came to attend my first concert.
I don’t really follow any of the other groups. I wonder why I chose H!P…?
The one thing I can say is that I highly respect all of their members.
198: 名無し募集中。。。 2015/04/27(月) 21:23:34.02 0.net
You know, I actually think The Girls Live might’ve played a pretty big part in attracting so many new female fa-… Wait. No. No, it didn’t.
Henkka: For many years, my girlfriend (more recently, wife) used to hate Hello! Project and idols altogether. When I say she hated them, I really do mean she hated them; this wasn’t mere disinterest or anything cute like that. Being Japanese, she knew exactly what idols and Hello! Project were about and she fiercely hated everything about it. She didn’t want to hear about it or know about it, and if given the choice, I reckon she probably would’ve rather had me not be a fan of Hello! Project either. (She never did actually ask me to give up my hobby because, thankfully, she isn’t a shitty person.) In other words, she was the last person you would’ve expected to ever be into idols in any meaningful way, and this remained the case for several years after we first met.
(Can you sense a “but” coming?)
But, much like myself, she had always been a big music lover. So one day in 2013 when Tsunku put out another one of his recent masterpieces — a song I would to this day describe as fucking amazing — I figured I had to have her hear it. Remembering her dislike of idols, I did the sensible thing and played her the instrumental version.
That’s pretty much all it took. It wasn’t a very long process from that day until her hate of Hello! Project had entirely transformed into love. She discovered her first oshi, sang her first H!P songs in karaoke, began watching their TV appearances and such regularly, bought her first H!P books, and attended her first event — when I explained to her that the event itself was free to attend and you only had to buy a CD if you wanted a round of handshakes with Morning Musume, she quickly explained to me that she would be buying the CD because, as she put it, “I want to touch them.”
The other day, I asked her if she remembers how she used to deeply hate H!P not that long ago. She did, and she couldn’t explain why exactly this had been the case. Obviously a big part of her overcoming it was the music, but then the good music has always been there: we’ve since gone through the archives together and she’s realized she loves old H!P music (from the time she was supposed to hate them) just as much as she does the newer material. So why did she not realize the music was right up her alley until I pointed it out to her? Surely her musical tastes hadn’t changed that much over the years, we agreed.
I proposed something that she did not necessarily fully agree with, and yet, she agreed I might’ve been on to something. I said that perhaps she’d simply been at the right point in her life to finally become a fan: maybe she hated me being a fan of idols five years ago because some part of her figured they were somehow in direct competition with her; that she thought I enjoyed them in part because they had something that she did not; because she felt inferior to them.
I was reminded of the interview with Inuyama Kamiko I translated some time ago.
Inuyama: The fact that I can now say “I like H!P” is because of my new way of looking at them, or rather because I’m not trying to compete with them anymore. Back when Momusu was first popular I was the same age as them, so it was difficult for me to cheer them on. I knew they were cute and everything but because we had our ages in common, it somehow made me not want to recognize that. But now at this age the only thing I have in common with them is my gender. Now when I see a cute girl like that, I can genuinely say “aww, she’s so cute!”
[…]
When I watch them, it’s no longer my 31-year-old self; it feels like I’m back to being the same age as them. […] For people who in their student days got the appeal of idols but didn’t want to admit it to themselves, people with regrets like “I would’ve wanted a life of sparkles and glitter like that“, people who despised cool or sexy girls, thinking of themselves as somehow inferior — for people like that who have grown up and who can now finally freely admit that they like idols, it might be something that allows them to feel like they’re reliving their youth.
Some years ago I had my wife watch a °C-ute music video and and I asked her what she thought. All she really had to say back then was that she thought they looked ugly. Now: she wishes she could sing like Airi, that she could be friends with Okai, and that she could somehow have Maimi’s face. (She still thinks Nacky kind of looks like a fish, but doesn’t everyone?)
All of which is just a long-winded way of saying: for this particular woman, her becoming a H!P fan was — in more or less equal parts I suppose — thanks to the music and the passage of time.
Source: http://matomeldo.doorblog.jp/archives/44482527.html
> 9. 名無しプロジェクト 2015年04月28日 00:13 ID:cj8Lu.EC0
> I don’t think there are that many “pairing” wota. The only fans who view them like
> that must come from an anime otaku background or something.
This might be a really good point!
Your wife sounds like a fucking laugh :P
“She still thinks Nacky kind of looks like a fish, but doesn’t everyone?”
Yes. Yes they do.
http://i.imgur.com/u7TQG7W.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/X5Hzvms.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SUNWwCg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YfGXAou.jpg
There are tons of exotic fish species out there and if she looks like a fish, it’s fine to me.
Bluefin Tuna is one of those exotic fishes, it have perfect, shinny, streamlined (and delicious) body.
:P
Nacky’s the best looking fish ever.
If Nacky is an animal, then I’m a zoophyle.
33. “On the contrary, I wish they’d go back to their old style of wota T’s, and that they’d bring back °C’s old logo.”
This person knows what she’s talking about. Juice=Juice, ℃-ute, Hello! Project in general… is there a time in the last few years they’ve introduced a replacement that hasn’t been much more boring?
I was going to say something like,
“are some of the japanese fans *seriously* bitching about this?”
//which really was a stupid question looking back on it\\
but then I got to the pictures
and I pretty much forgot that there had been anything else in the blog post
…..!
………..!!
…..but I’m pretty damn certain that this is a good direction for H!P
>_>
*looks up current price of airfare*
==================================
[regarding Henkka’s remarks]
“my girlfriend (more recently, wife)”
//you forgot the AWWW YEAAA and/or *wink* afterwards\\
“pseudo-lesbian thing”
What’d I miss?
> “pseudo-lesbian thing”
> What’d I miss?
Quite a few of the UP2BOY photo shoots, quite a few of the member blogs, as well as a lot of “self promoted” combi’s: PonPon, HoneyCho, Yuu & M.E., Maimi/Mano, OdenPon, GakiPon, MonkeyDemon, etc.
But hasn’t this been around for a very long time? Even before they starts to write blogs?
I remember eri and sayumi was one of the popular once, and Airi and Kanna was quite popular too
Being from Finland, do you remember Tiktak? lol They were all-girl band when I was in my early and mid teens, and every one of my female peers hated them. To the extent that when they performed in my home town, someone spit on one of them. Which is horrible. But thinking back on it, they were all pretty, Petra was a legit great vocalist (she was born the same year as me, too) and they even had some catchy songs. I mean, not worse than any other pop stuff! But you couldn’t think that when they were your age, in your teens. Nuh-uh. That would have been the worst, most uncool thing to do.
… So, I think there could be a little bit of truth to your theory, just a little! Some feeling of “competition” or whatever – I think when I was a teen though, the most uncool thing that you could do was to really care about and put effort into something, which Tiktak members did. How dare those pretty young girls perform music! That is the lamest thing ever!
Anyway. I think there are a lot of things that can influence someone’s attitude or approach towards something. I’ve noticed though, that if there is a member I “hate”, I’ll end up making a complete turn and end up loving them. In my case indifference is more ‘dangerous’ than hate, because hate can be flipped around. >_> Hate means you are already emotionally involved, but at the same time, why spend so much energy hating if you genuinely don’t care for it? I think there is a seed inside every hater, and they just don’t know it, and they would never accept it, until that dreadful moment of DAIKIRAI DAIKIRAI DAIKIRAI DAISUKI – AH~. Hahahaa… Yup.
Thanks for the great translation as always Henkka!
And wow! Your comment regarding your wife suddenly becoming a fan is a very touching story. So cool! Props to converting her into an H!P wota :D
I attended a Morning Musume handshake event in Tokyo in early 2014. I was amazed at the amount of girls there – outnumbering the creepy guys I expected to see. As a decent looking white guy, I had some fun conversations with a few female wota. Ikuta seemed most popular, followed by Kudo.
As the day went on (my tickets were spread throughout the day), the ratio changed. It was more older guys. So that was interesting. They tended to like different members than the girls.
The NYC show was a lot of (geeky) girls, but that was to be expected. It was an eclectic mix. Then I attended show 1 and 4 of Gradation. Each time, I had an energetic young dude on my left and a quiet young girl on my right. Few creepers in sight! The vibe and intensity was amazing – not just from the members but the fans! I kept up as best I could, but didn’t know the choreography as well. During TIKI BOOM, they dude next to me grabbed me for us to do the group leaning portion.
But back to the girl fans. I think it’s great! Sexualizing is not a part of my idol fandom, so I like that there are others who more appreciate idols’ hard work, cuteness and skill. I would like to see more girls be energetic, but maybe they just enjoy watching and waving penlights a bit.
The reason why I could never get into AKB is because of the way they sexualize them. I don’t think I like idols, I think I just like H!P.
H!P has awkward swimsuit photo book shots, and I think some of the costumes are a bit risqué, but it’s not overt.
I’ve never really strayed from H!P to AKB territory; nothing I’ve heard from them amuses me. And honestly, aside from ANGERME, I only have a few songs each from Berryz, C-ute and J=J.
I have started a weekly column on my blog called Justin’s J-Pop Jukebox, where I share a song from a Japanese group. I’m making sure to explore the entirety of the genre, not just Morning Musume.
Thanks for sharing your sweet story, Henkka. My life sucks.
and no shit, that J=J song got me hooked on them too even though I used to deem myself that no other idol group than Momusu I wld ever listen to. But since I’m a sucker for music, I’ve been digging other H!P groups as well.
I’m not a female fan, but Henkka’s story inspired me to post my story.
I was once almost like Henkka’s wife. I used to think this whole scene was creepy. I met a friend in an online MMO that was always into everything idol. Most people, like myself were a little put off by it. That was a good 6 years ago. Over the years he would link a video here, and there. And late in the night when I would go along with, not really understanding what i was watching. He has a chance to attend an MM concert some time back and told me to go. I didn’t and i totally regret it now. A few months back he linked a mashup of each girl’s closeup in Seishun kozou ga naiteiru, this lead me to Yuugure Wa Amaegari. I was hooked on how entertaining the entire scene is. All of a sudden, i wanted to know everything about these girls, hear every song the group has ever done and everything they have to say. At first i was just blown away by Masume, but soon started to explore all of H!P and UF. Similiar to Henkka’s wife’s, “I want to touch them.” I just want to know everything i can about them.
This has brought my obsession as a foreign fan of everything Japan to a whole new level. Fast forward a couple of months and all i can listen to is H!P and some other groups. Every week I look forward to HaroSute, GR and M+, etc. My friend and I find something to link to each other and it’s never a dull moment. Like i said, hooked
I’ve always wanted to visit Japan, now i know that when I do, it needs to be when there is a concert I can attend. Oh yea, that friend is Aspenth.
Kind of creepy reading a post about the horrible things I’ve done (lol)
“I want to touch them.”
also creepy! =D
You really should have been at that NY concert from MM…I guess I should apologize for introducing you to them too late? lol
(they’ll be back in another 4 years I’m sure…)
I thought those Seishun and Yuugure fan vids were just recently uploaded haha. Haven’t thanked Aspenth for that because my YT vid got terminated recently.
Anyways, welcome aboard, mate!
So who got your interest among Musumes so far?
*YT channel. Damn you, UF T_T
Oh shit, sorry about that…it’s not like I’ve been sharing them on a FB wall or anything prolific, though =(
Looks like most of the live vids of the NY concert have had their audio tracks muted due to a copyright complaint…how lame.
This one is still up (for now), and I’m actually visible in it lol…look for the dude with the grey hat-turned-backwards in the front row ^_^
Shit was mad fun
Oops I misinterpreted what you said like I was at fault LOL
I wouldn’t be surprised if I was though…always a safe bet to blame me >_>
Sakura-chan because she is so talented yet still growing into her own; Duu because I something about her voice is addicting, her confidence and I’m a sucker for the short hair cuts :)
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All I get from that post is you have a Japanese wife..
*starts to re-learn Japanese*
I quite like acting as a disgusting wota when i’m next to a girl wota in concert/event !
Fishing for a “キモい！”?
From my viewpoint (Westerner, hardly understanding Japanese language), I’ve always assumed female wota to have always existed. It just went against social norms until idols became more mainstream and thus “okay” to both like and feel safer at events. With the more assertive/idgaf-about-your-opinions females attending, the more reserved ones have less worry about being the “only ones” there lol
btw, hasn’t H!P been very acknowledging of their female fans? I remember hearing about female fans-only events for C-ute a good while back when I first became a fan.
—
As for the whole “omg girls are so competitive with one-another” BS… well, I just called it BS so that expresses my view of that theory lol -especially- in such a vague way to describe or try to explain something.
Like, obviously it depends how they’re brought up and how society regards them. Japan is very sexist (among other things) so I can see them forcing “competition” amongst women. Such as “this person is the ideal beauty, you are so far from it that you’re disgusting!” or “this is what a woman should be and aim to become, wtf is with you and not liking skirts or make-up you’re not a woman at all!”, that kinda toxic stuff. Doesn’t even need to come from a direct source, it can just be the subtle message from magazines and such, but it’s of course gonna be worse if someone they trust or regard highly of ever say such toxic, messed-up things.
But, yeah, no to the whole “girl competition”. Not as a “base” for reasoning (beyond what I rambled a bit above). Your now-wife sounds like she knew the creep factor that came with idols, and I’d say that deep-rooted understanding is what drove her hate (or a different factor to it). When you have something in common with someone that gets something you yourself are disgusted by (eg a teen girl and a teen girl idol, both desired by both pedos and creeps alike), you end up not wanting anything to do with it: you want to be as disassociated as you can get from it, so it doesn’t reflect upon you or – heaven forbid – be acted upon you. Of course, I dunno your wife or what she was specifically/generally disgusted about idols over, for all I know she could indeed have envied something and hated them for it lol
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For my own self, I would only use the term “competitive” if to describe how much they inspired me. Where their hard work makes me want to become better at various things. Of course, me personally becoming an idol was impossible for me (funds and laziness lol), so I just kept to having fun following and singing poorly in my room.
As those closer to my age graduate and fresh blood properly debuted, I’ve started to watch them all mature. Some mature in completely different directions than I had expected, usually for the better. I’m always glad whenever they’re having fun, if they seem to be able to live as honestly as an idol can. I always hope that the company won’t throw them (intentionally) under the bus as well since we all know H!P and Up-Front are just… yeah, lol
Of course, with being an online hobby/lifestyle for me, I’m able to be detached from the toxic elements idols “thrive” in. I don’t need to deal with the creeps or be associated with them or, as it seems most female fans (potentially) deal with, risk being bothered by the creeps. It’s not so embedded into my culture to where the creeps are the only ones expected lol, tho of course places like conventions can gather them. But, like female wota, it’s gotten tons “safer” for females to go to certain places pertaining to their interests as they’re definitely no longer “rare” in attendance.
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TL;DR: Females have long-since liked similar if not the exact same stuff as males, there’s not some inherent “competition” between us unless you foster that toxic environment (so don’t assume that as default behavior, that’s weak), and female fans gaining more confidence will only naturally encourage them to take your tickets away lol
Just to clarify: what I wrote was not by any means proposed as the universal, default reason some females have a strong dislike of female idols. I was only thinking in terms of one individual, based off of discussions we’ve had regarding idols in the past while she was still a “hater” — even then, like I wrote above, she did not necessarily fully agree with my assessment. I do not in the least assume what I wrote to hold true for all women.
Hell, I’m a guy. I can hardly claim to be an expert on the subject of women.
Ah, didn’t mean to insinuate that as “the default” more than it’s just how you phrased the situation, including your wife not fully agreeing with it. I’m usually sloppy with typing, sorry.
But don’t use that cheap excuse of “I’m not expert (on women)”, that’s just an insult: it’s used more for “I don’t want to understand them or even try (but I’ll assert my opinion anyway)”. Women’s (as well as those outside the gender binary’s) narratives are growing increasingly more common and easily heard/watched, it really depends on those that aren’t part of the minority whether they learn anything or not (tho even a decade ago it was ton harder to hear more than a male narrative in most fields lol, culture norms are a huge issue to understanding too btw).
Anyway, a good example is this thread, both to see who would definitely use the “I’m no expert on women (but)” excuse, as well as women narratives shared from the source and even some that either try to or actually do understand females; the culture norms also were mentioned too lol
(i’m also wordy naturally, sorry extra for that)
I don’t wish for either of us to spend any more time or energy on this discussion, so I’ll keep it brief. I did not intend my reply to come off as either an excuse nor an insult. With my tongue-in-cheek line about not being an expert I meant to convey that I am talking out of my ass. I hoped to underline that, although stated, my opinion amounts to nothing. That’s all.
I’m just a lesbian who likes Japanese pop music, I’m probably about as gross as your average male wota. I found some MVs on youtube and started lurking around tumblr, been a fan ever since, which is nice to say since I have a past of shifting my “favorite thing” around every year.
Really Nice reading, Thanks Henka
Thanks for that translation. It was nice that there were actual female wota on that thread explaining this time than just male wota talking about how girls would switch their fandom soon again because that’s what girls do.
I think it’s true that in the past (and even nowadays in other countries) you think you have to compete with other girls of your age group. Maybe that changed because there were so many “weird idols” becoming popular as well though they were not seen as “the pretty ones” but more the entertaining girls and lots of girls in idol groups started to express their admiration for other idols. Also guys started to express their love not only for the most pretty one but also that entertaining akward girl. So all in all I feel like it was more that the whole athmosphere changed and that it’s seen as a good thing to be positive towards all different kind of girls.
And honestly I think that’s amazing because let’s face it: There is no way most woman can ever get even close to the beauty of an Airi and most guys won’t get a girl taht looks as pretty as a girl like her does (based on general promoted beauty standards).
And to realize that you don’t need to because lot of different girls are admired nowadays and you just need to find that person that makes you happy and that might also be that confindent akward and weird looking person is amazing, isn’t it?
I agree with one of the reply, I was already a fan of Berryz back in 2004/2005, then I started become a fan of c-ute too when they debut, then become a morning musume fan when jun jun and Lin Lin joined, but at that time I was still in school so I didn’t have much of income to buy their goods or go to their concerts, but I started having a job around 2011, so now I can buy their cd’s and went to c-ute’s concert last year! So I think most girls are the same as me.
I see where the AKB comments are coming from..
Itano Tomomi was the member that had the most (teenage-early 20s) female fans, after she graduated a lot of us kinda looked for a void filler. I, for example, was like “Ok.. so Itano is out of AKB… Reina is out of H!P… what now?” So these days I just kinda sit at the sidelines waiting for someone to re-capture my attention (while reading funny threads like this). So far Ogata Haruna and Maachan fooling around is bringing my inner H!P wota out again, I thought Berryz had totally drained it out of me after that grad concert XD
I hope no one got offended by this post, if so, sorry! it wasn’t my intention
Best comment from Henkka I’ve read in a long time. I love your one-liners, but this was a nice read.
i’m a female fan, and from my point of view it has to do with this age, i mean, is like now is ok for women to like idols, because they have evolve they aren’t just sex fantasies for creepy wota’s so their image is getting better at the eyes of the general audience so it has become acceptable for all kinds of people to like them, and in my particular case i like H!P because they put a lot of focus on the music, and the dancing and singing skills, and yes they have gravure pictures but they don’t over do it, and they are really fun to follow, plus Sayu have become a role model for me as well so i feel like they appeal to all kinds of fans
It comes down to this, I think – women are blatantly excluded and unwelcome in all kinds of arenas, from jobs all the way down to subcultures. The tipping point is letting them know-yes, you are wanted as a fan and a participant!
There have always been female fans of any entertainment example, because we’re just people, but some scenes are more hostile or intimidating to women than others. Women are told “this isn’t for you” “women don’t listen to ___/wear ___/like ___” and we hear that we aren’t wanted and we listen to that.
SO how does the tide change? How does an industry or a fandom let women know they are wanted?
Some examples from H!P:
-Sayu, Momoko, and others appearing on primetime TV shows targeted at general audiences (as opposed to only late-night)
-Kirarin Revolution and Shugo Chara, targeted squarely at young female audiences
-Hair tutorials, coordination on Girls Live, use of blogs & WEAR to promote girls’ individual styles
-Requesting female fans to appear as live TV audiences (to show that women attend H!P shows)
-Featuring female fans on shows like Haromoni@, J-Melo, etc.
-Lyrical content- Tsunku’s strong talent for capturing real scenes or issues girls are thinking about and expressing them in a way that resonates with women
-Involving members in production roles- designing goods, theming their own PBs, crafting their own setlists, Michishige Camera, Miyabi styling CG, Chinami judging & supporting KSS, Captain involved in member selection & mentoring, CG being Satoda’s idea with Momoko advising and a female producer…
Most female fans will ask at some point: “Is it ok for me to like this?” and “Is it ok for me to be here?” UF may not be perfect, but they are overwhelmingly saying more than ever- YES.
Yup, you nailed it. And UF definitely deserves some respect for their attempts. I’d add to your list that a lot of UF idols have a variety of personalities, and are encouraged to be themselves – Reina, IIRC has a lot of female fans, and they were always quite attracted to her independent, cool, outspoken nature, even if all of that would go against the typical male idol fantasy.
JPop in general, and H!P more specifically, brought my wife and I together. We met online through mutual friends in the online H!P community.
As I’m not Japanese, I can’t speak for that culture of women. Nor women in my own country for that matter (lol). All I can do is give my own experience as a female H!P fan, and maybe relate it to Japanese female fans and how some of them might feel as women.
I initially became a fan of Morning Musume’s Platinum Era then most of H!P, because they were around my age. Honestly, I like it best when the groups I like are close to my age (I’m in my early 20s right now). I’ve heard that the Platinum Era brought in a lot of female fans, so maybe it was the same for some of them. Also, there’s a sort of stigma in being a fan of girls younger than you or idols all together (given their fanservice, like photobooks and etc). To me, it’s a little embarrassing to admit that I am an idol fan to friends. It’s sort of a ‘ohhhh, you like ~that~ sort of thing’ deal, and I’m often laughed at for it. It might be a bit more socially acceptable for men to be fans of female idols and women to be fans of male idols, especially in Japan. Women might also feel like idols objectify women, and find it disgusting.
Also, it’d be a bit awkward to be one of the few women in a mostly male audience. Probably why many female fans don’t attend concerts (lol). All my speculation.
I’m a female fan of 11/12 years, although not Japanese. I stumbled across MM just after 6th generation joined, when I was 14 (my first song was Go Girl Koi no Victory), and I was amazed – a lot of these girls were the same age I was! (Sayumi is actually only a day younger than me xD My birthday today, hers tomorrow) And tbh, that’s why I first became a fan. These girls were my age. I could relate to them, almost. And those who were older than me, like Yossie, I looked up to.
I’ll also say, though, that to me, they were just singers. I had no idea about “idols”, to me they were simply a girl group like any other. I was actually very, very surprised later on when I found out the vast majority of their fans were older men, as here, most girl groups have predominately young, female fanbases. I assumed this was the same. So yeah, that was a bit of a shock.
Anyway, I kept on following MM. These days, I’m now older than all the members, and 9 years older than my oshi, Zukki… but now, rather than looking up to the girls like I did when I was younger, I look at them like younger sisters. I feel proud having watched them grow up in the group and seeing their progress. I would say that today, I love MM much more than I did when I was younger.
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